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 Where do I start? - dmg
I'm just back from a wonderful holiday with my SO and
my youngest daughter. I had hoped being away from
everything would somehow bring me closer to my SO and
maybe the quiet time we had would have given me some
answers, maybe clear up some of my confusion. Well, here
I am just as confused as ever.
Could someone give me some pointers on listening to
myself, understanding myself. Does this sound like I'm a
looney? No matter how much time I sit in quiet and try to
understand how I'm feeling, to listen to myself, I just
seem to go around in circles. I am so tired of feeling so
unsettled and unsure. A day doesn't go by without my
wondering if I should really be in the relationship I'm
in. I chatted with wolfie a bit earlier and began to see
that I am really dealing with a lot of my own issues. eg,
the fear of being myself and the fear of commitment. I
know these things I have to work on but where does a
person begin??
How do I stop thinking so negatively about my
relationship? It seems sometimes I look for reasons to
end it but instead I have stuck with it not knowing what
to do to change it.
Our sexual relationship is wonderful (when we find the
time). It seems to be the only time I feel really close
to my SO. In day to day living I have shut myself off
from him. I find I am intimidated by him in conversations
(like I'm going to sound stupid or something) so I don't
talk much, we rarely touch (hugs, kisses, etc.) His dog
goes ape whenever I make any move towards him (even after
2 years), even if we sit too close on the couch. I guess
I have pretty much trained myself not to bother any more.
There's the sensitivity issue I talked about in my other
posting. I am even hesitant and feel uncomfortable giving
him a simple shoulder massage because he has told me in
that sarcastic way that my daughter gives a much better
rub than me. How can this bother me to the point that I
feel uncomfortable doing this simple thing for him?
My SO has told me on different occasions that I don't
give enough to the relationship. I guess I know that's
true. I know I'm not giving him what he needs
emotionally. I want to be closer to him but I don't seem
to be able to give anymore than what I am now. Telling
him all of these feelings I have will result in a break
up of some kind (short or long lived) I'm positive, it's
happened before when I have tried to be honest. I'm a
little afraid of that. Is there such a thing as too much
honesty? I seem to have rambled a bit much. Thanks once
again for listening. Take care all.
 From: mzet
here are my guesses: TALK TO HIM!!! You're going to
strain the relationship one way or another anyway, and
you might as well do it now while you still love him!!!
The longer you wait, the worse it will get. The longer
you wait, the higher the risk that one of you or both of
you may call it quits or have an affair or both.
What you have going for you is that you have
identified many of the issues that bother you. Keep
searching for them, both inside of you and in the
relationship. That is a huge first step. He probably
doesn't even know how serious the situation is and if it
blows up he will wonder why you never really told him how
you felt until it was too late.
You sound as if you are starting to lose who you are
by being with him (i.e., fear of conversing with him,
fear of intimacy, the damn dog, etc.) and you may soon
find that it is only when you are away from him that you
have the freedom to be who you are. This is an alarm
bell. And it is a very dangerous condition, in my own
mind, if you want to preserve the relationship. Both of
you need to find ways to relate to one another that
preserve who he is and who you are. Only communication
and hard work will get you both objectives. I suggest
therapy. A therapist is a facilitator, an independent
third party that can give you two the tools you need to
explore yourselves and the relationship. He may need a
little help in being convinced of how important therapy
will be. But don't give up. Tell him you are serious.
Take a deep breath and find the courage to talk to
him. But don't wait! Again, my guesses.
From: wolfie
Dearest dmg, It sounds as if you are in a position
where you don't feel safe. As you know, your SO is
bringing up certain issues within yourself that now - it
is time - needs to be healed. When you were a child, did
you feel as if you couldn't do ANYTHING right?? It is ok
to cry - to get mad - to not want to take it anymore. You
see, if you hadn't grown as much as you have, his words
to you would feel like truth and you would just go on
believing what he says about you.... Instead, a piece of
you KNOWS that something isn't right here. I TRULY AM OK
and I am doing the best I can and IT IS OK! I am
DESERVING of LOVE! And you are!!!! I read a book recently
and the woman went on to describe her partner who always
always put her down. She kept reacting and feeling bad
(was just mirroring her own issues about self) But she
was working on herself and taking care of herself and she
started to fly, to grow, to feel real good about herself.
It got to the point where, when he said something to put
her down, it really didn't phase her anymore - it didn't
bother her because she was free of it. Eventually she
WALKED away from the relationship. In regards to where
you are at right now, it sounds like you are not feeling
safe - safe to talk, to share, to be yourself and know
that you're ok. It sounds as if you feel like you are
walking on eggshells and whenever you open your mouth or
do anything, you feel put down.
What you can do is exactly what you are doing - you
are reaching out - you are connecting with supportive and
SAFE people - you ARE growing, even though you don't feel
like it. I would still recommend affirmations! Every day
- as much as you can - over and over. I am deserving of
Love. I am ok the way I am. I am beautiful! I deserve
happiness! I love me! I accept me! I AM enough just the
way I AM! Perfect or Not, I am OK the way I am. Fill
yourself up with all of the love you can. Attend support
groups which are very POSITIVE and Loving! And you know
what - everything is going to be ok. In regards to you
not being enough for him emotionally - Screw that and let
it go. It is Not Your responsibility to fulfil him
emotionally or in any which way. The ONLY person who can
make him happy is HIM. You are NOT responsible for his
feelings - he is responsible for his feelings, his
happiness, his emotional fulfilment. He is responsible
for HIM and you are for you and so continue looking at
what you can do for you. There are some wonderful books
out there and wonderful support groups. You are doing the
best you can and I think you are doing great! another
thing you can do is to try and meditate. Just get quiet
and listen...........what does your intuition tell you?
Your inner voice of knowing will always guide you - just
try to listen and hear what comes up. LOTS OF LOVE AND
HUGS are being sent to you now! Know that I am with you!
From: Bernd
You mentioned "I know I'm not giving him what he
needs emotionally.." My guess is the real truth here
is HE'S not giving himself what he needs to emotionally,
and he's expecting you to make up the difference. In
Lynda's and my experience, this simply doesn't work.
Lynda can only help me with emotional needs I'm trying to
nurture in myself. If I don't take the MAIN
responsibility for my own needs, the holes become too big
for Lynda to even partially "fill". We did this
with each other thru most of our marriage, and of course,
we both continued to fall short. As a result, we also
became more disillusioned with ourselves, each other,
life, and our marriage. Sound like a recipe for disaster?
It is.
However, there's also a gift in what he's telling you.
Because partners are uncanny mirrors for each other, my
guess is that you have a very similar difficulty
nurturing your own emotional needs, and quite likely are
looking for him to fill some holes of emptiness inside
you that YOU need to tackle more yourself. Wolfie's
mention of support groups are ideal places to get in
touch with those, and begin filling them safely. If both
of you are expecting the other to fill such emotional
needs (and it's likely you aren't even aware of this
process happening in many areas of your lives), then what
you have is a "trade war" going on, where each
of you tries to get as much back as you give. That's
human. Except your perceptions of what you give, and what
you get in return are going to be very different. The
power struggles become more exhausting and confusing as
time goes by.
You mentioned that he reacts to honesty with threats
of leaving, or actual leaving. My suggestion is give him
the permission to make whatever choices he feels are best
for him, INCLUDING when and if to listen to you when you
want to share your feelings and thoughts. Sometimes, we
spring "honesty" on others when such honesty
scares the bejeebers out of them, because it triggers
some pretty strong fears about their own worthiness that
they keep buried deep down inside. If you can find a
support group or good therapist, practice being safe with
honesty with them, so that you can give your partner
compassionate honesty. This is not something you do for
your partner; it's something you do for you, because you
can only give others what you own. Being able to give
YOURSELF compassionate honesty about your own
imperfections is a powerful healing tool.
In our relationship, I try to remind myself that
"everything that Lynda does is what I need". If
she threatened to leave because I wanted to be honest
with her, it would help me to ask myself "why do I
need that reaction from her right now for my own
healing?" When I explore THAT question, I find out
some very important things about myself, that help me in
my recovery. God gives me what I need, when I need it. I
pray for the wisdom to see every gift wrapped in barbed
wire. Hope some of this helps. I love Wolfie's response
to you.
From: mzet
questions, questions, questions: is there room for a
middle ground here? if we concentrate on the self so
much, and if all the effort is on the self, why do we
need a partner? are we loving our partner when we shut
down any effort to communicate to the other what hurts
us, even if the other is just the trigger and not the
source of the hurt? are we loving when we affirm in
action that the other can only heal by themselves and
that therefore they are not in need of direct feedback
from us? is there a framework for compassion toward the
other when we only concentrate on healing ourselves? why
do I get the sense that we are afraid of risking having
our most important needs nurtured by our partners? why
are we so afraid of depending on our partners? why can't
we be honest with ourselves and then with our partners,
particularly regarding those things that bother us in the
relationship?
I know I am projecting when I say this (hey, who
doesn't?) but when one partner in a relationship has such
clear signals, it seems to me that in addition to being
introspective to begin to heal by him or herself, he or
she needs to be extroverted if indeed he or she wants to
save the relationship. To me, that means starting the
painful process of re-making the relationship within a
different framework that sustains and affirms each other.
Is it necessary to wait for a crisis of catastrophic
proportions, such as a separation or an affair, to get to
work? I think not, particularly and especially if one of
the partners has clear indications that something is
wrong. What do you think?
From: wolfie
Dear Mzet, In prior discussions we have talked about
communication and how important it is. It is Key - for
that matter and I believe it completely! We discussed
this in dmg's prior posts. dmg (and please correct me if
I am wrong dmg) has tried to communicate and has, in
fact, been learning HOW to communicate. What I sensed in
this post is that dmg is feeling pretty low about herself
these days (the relationship is allowing certain things
to come up) and she is unsure her direction. Going
within, listening to ones intuition, doing what one needs
to do for oneself, reaching out to supportive people,
pampering herself with love, are all tools we are
offering.
And just for the record, I believe it IS always about
US. We cannot change others and we can't really blame
them for that matter (we can try but it doesn't do any
good) because we are responsible for our own lives and we
do these things to ourselves (based on our inner beliefs
about self). And people are just really mirroring US. And
the only thing we can really do is bless others for what
they are giving us and take responsibility and look at
changing us. As we change and grow, we notice that things
around us change as well. But it is US that is changing.
Our beliefs about self have changed, therefore we draw
into our lives experiences that reflect that.
From: Susan
Mzet, Well so far this week we have tackled:
co-dependency, dead dreams, lack of self-trust, fear of
commitment, etc. etc. etc. Does the phrase "Fear of
Intimacy" ring any bells here. Thank you for finally
putting into words, the very thing that has been nagging
at me for a long time. "If I love myself enough I
won't need anyone, or anything - I will become my own
universe." Empowering thought, BUT VERY LONELY (out
there in space, being your own universe, shut off from
all HUMAN contact). Thanks for asking some hard questions
!!!!!!!!
From: wolfie
Hi mzet, I just wanted to say one more thing and then
I'll be quiet. I feel it is always about us but we
wouldn't really know "us" if it weren't for the
beautiful relationships we have with others! I used to
think I was pretty "with it" alone and loving
myself but put me into a relationship and I'm a kid again
- facing all of my fears. (and seeing how I really feel
about myself - not good at all) I also believe that as we
treat others, we are really treating ourselves.
Relationships are a beautiful way to grow in our self
love. We get to know ourselves. We grow spiritually, we
evolve. We work on ourselves and change ourselves because
we can't change anyone else, and we treat others as I
would want to be treated - for as I treat others, I treat
myself. It is all about self love and self growth and
relationships are incredible tools for that. If I treat
my partner with compassion and respect then that says
that I have compassion and respect for me. We are all
interconnected.
Relationships are truly beautiful and truly
remarkable. All relationships are such gifts. Mzet, truly
good questions!!!! I used to say "hey I gotta do
what I gotta do" and think "hey if you have an
issue with it, it is your issue - you are responsible for
your life" but I have learned about compassion and
acting with integrity and treating others as I would want
to be treated - with love, kindness and compassion - for
you and I are one. And in regards to communication - as I
said earlier, I think it is Key. Having a great
communication tool (approach that works) is even better -
in other words, a way that we can both share and listen
and have genuine compassion...be friends for each
other....a way we can successfully find solutions...etc.
Mzet, God Bless!!!!
From: Bernd
“If we concentrate on the self so much, and if
all the effort is on the self, why do we need a
partner?” I can be okay and happy without a partner.
But I can have even more joy and transformation in my
relationship with Lynda. It’s like 1+1=3.
“Are we loving our partner when we shut down any
effort to communicate to the other what hurts us, even if
the other is just the trigger and not the source of the
hurt?” I don’t shut down communication. I try
to make my communication give me the MOST back. If my
hidden motives include wanting Lynda to change, then
I’m giving less acceptance, and less love, and that
is less loving to myself.
“Are we loving when we affirm in action that the
other can only heal by themselves and that therefore they
are not in need of direct feedback from us?” Another
paradox. Lynda doesn’t “need” feedback
from me, but she gets it in a number of involuntary ways
anyway - my moods, my body language, etc. She can heal
fine without me. With me and my recovery, however, her
healing has happened more quickly, and her suffering gets
transformed into joy much faster. And vice versa.
“Is there a framework for compassion toward the
other when we only concentrate on healing
ourselves?” The amount of compassion I can give
others is linked to the amount of compassion I’m
able to give myself. But I can fool myself a lot easier
than I can fool others, believing I’m being
compassionate to myself when actually I’m walling
off things I don’t like about myself. How
compassionate I am with her gives me a lot more accurate
reading of how well I’m doing with myself.
“Why do I get the sense that we are afraid of
risking having our most important needs nurtured by our
partners?” Because the closer I get to someone, the
more emotionally vulnerable I am - and if someone hurts
me bad enough emotionally, I become suicidal, and
there’s a real risk to my life. My experience in the
past has been that the less faith I have in love and God
and myself, the easier it is for others to hurt me
emotionally, and the more dangerous it feels the closer I
get to someone.
“Why are we so afraid of depending on our
partners?” Because I know inside it’s
dangerous, unless my main dependence is on God and my
inner voice. I try to depend on Lynda for help I’m
not able to give myself, but only to the extent that she
is freely willing and able to give it. I can’t hug
myself as well as she can, for example, but if she gives
them out of fear or a sense of obligation, they lose
their magic, and both of us lose.
“Why can't we be honest with ourselves and then
with our partners, particularly regarding those things
that bother us in the relationship?” Honesty, for
me, is scary. First, I know I’m a long way off from
being completely honest with myself - part of my disease
of codependency. Honesty needs acceptance and compassion
as a safe place to grow. I also accept that I can’t
be any more honest with Lynda than I am with myself. This
helps me a lot when I do talk to her about things that
bother me in the relationship, because it reminds me that
such talking will help ME uncover things inside myself
I’ve been buffaloing myself about (unawares). Once I
see them, I can hand them over to God, and He/She does
some neat miracles with them, and my life gets better.
That example is the best thing I can give her. When her
life gets better, her sunshine radiates and warms me all
over. And vice versa.
“When one partner in a relationship has such
clear signals, it seems to me that in addition to being
introspective to begin to heal by him or herself, he or
she needs to be extroverted if indeed he or she wants to
save the relationship”. If by this, you mean that
the “recovering” partner has to reach out to
the other, in our case that’s true, and yet not
true. As long as Lynda and I were together, almost every
choice I made and emotion I felt had some degree of
effect on her, just because we shared physical space so
much. Like sharing air - if I opened the windows and
breathed fresh air, she’d get some to, without any
extra effort from me. If I smoked, she’d breathe in
the second-hand smoke.
In the same way, my recovery affected her, without any
effort on my part to have it affect her. Now, picture me
trying to “get” her to breathe that fresh air
from opening the windows, trying to force it into her
mouth. Get the picture? Her resistance to that kind of
control would be healthy. So was her resistance to my
attempts to get her into therapy or alanon. As a
codependent, I realize that it’s damn hard for me to
know when my efforts have some control wrapped up in
them. The best thing I can do for myself and her is to
reach out to her when she is receptive, and invites my
help, and remind her that her inner voice is her best
guide, not me. As far as saving the relationship, for me
it’s this simple: if the relationship is the best
thing for her, and the best thing for me, then God will
show us the way, thru our inner voices. It may take some
time for each of us to “get the message”, but
if I’m going to support her trusting her inner
voice, then I have to give that process whatever time it
needs. And I did. If this relationship isn’t the
best thing for her, then why would I want to shortchange
her? I have implicit faith now (and boy, that was a LONG
time coming) that God will lead me to where I need to go,
and where deep down I WANT to go, but have a hard time
putting into words yet. Lynda is free to share as much or
as little as she wants, and to give as little or as much
as she chooses. As a human being, SHE wants as much
happiness and love out of this life as anyone. That
freedom gives her a safe place to find it, and she has
done far more healing within that freedom than she did
during all my attempts to fix her and the marriage.
Oooooo, reading this over I just noticed there’s
not a lot of softness or gentleness in my answers. Looks
like you triggered something I need to look at!:) Ya just
never know who’s gonna flip open a trapdoor that ya
(meaning I) need to look at. I thank you for that.
Seriously. Hope this shows a bit more of how this thing
on my neck works!
From: mzet
your answers were gentle :) one more question (s): do
you think that the paradoxes that those who are in
relationships with alcoholics or addicts of any kind and
are therefore in potentially codependent situations apply
100% to relationships where there are no addictions
present?
I guess I am concerned that this may not necessarily
be the case, that we run the risk of applying a set of
paradigms that work on a co-dependent situation but may
not all the time on a non-co-dependent situation. I mean,
we all have addictions to one extent or another, but
sometimes the addiction may be temporary as in the case
of an affair, and once the affair is over, is the correct
attitude one of total detachment and reliance on self?
And if the problem is not related to addiction at all, as
it seems to be in the current series of postings, are we
using the right framework in relying on co-dependency
methods?
Like you, I believe, too, that a life of celibacy is
also a potential way to sanctity. However, I am not so
sure about a life of promiscuity. It's either marriage or
celibacy, regardless of your sexual inclination, maybe
because both require a commitment, and are difficult..
I recognize how important it is to heal ourselves
independently of our partner. But once that process is
underway for BOTH, compassion should be what it means,
literally, to suffer together. And in my own experience,
that is accompanied by an urge to help the other in an
intentional way. To take your example of breathing clean
air by opening a window a step further, doesn't
compassion urge me to perform mouth to mouth
resuscitation if my partner has stopped breathing?
Opening the window so I can breath better does not help
my partner much, does it? Once breathing is restored,
then continuing artificial respiration will be a
detriment, and that's when you step back, true love
demands that you do. The question to me is how to discern
when to step in and when to step back.
The fear of risk of depending on our partners is very
real. You put it in very stark language. At one point, I
forget where, you spoke about a type of dependency on the
other that was not addictive. You called it something
like "mutual dependency" or something like
that. To me, the parable of the prodigal son speaks to
the type of perfect love that I am talking about, where
both dependency and independence co-exists. Again, the
question seems to be how to develop a relationship where
both co-exist.
I also get something very important from your posting
that I need to continue to remind myself: that only God,
perfect by definition, can fulfil all of my needs
perfectly. So when God is at the center of a
relationship, i.e., when we love the other because their
God is our God, because they simply are rather than
because of what we get out of him or her, and when both
partners recognize this experience, then it is truly
heaven on earth, and that little phrase in the Our Father
which says that God's will is done on earth as it is in
heaven becomes a reality, and we really get a glimpse of
Heaven. But if I insist on having all of my needs met by
my partner, or a series of partners, I will fail
miserably. I have a feeling that it is in sharing this
road to God, in walking with our partners holding hands,
helping each other along the way, that we can all become
saints, in the broadest sense of the word, i.e., fully
human beings.
One of the reasons I have come to appreciate Christian
spirituality is because it has a strong communal
component to it. If you think about it, the mere fact
that we share a common language points to community. This
web site is another clear example of that principle. The
love that we discover inside of us once we become aware
of God's presence inside of each of us and, in fact,
inside of everything that is, tends to pour out of us
into the community, sometimes effortlessly. The real
questions this post struggles with, therefore, is how you
discern your place in the community, particularly the
community of a marriage, in the face of suffering, or, in
other words, how compassion interfaces with love and
action.
I appreciate your thoughts on the issue of saving a
relationship. They make a lot of sense to me, and, as you
know, it is the same thing I discovered: essentially, to
love is to love unconditionally. But in my experience,
that unconditional love is only possible when it is not
ME loving, but God loving thorough me. It is humanly
impossible to love unconditionally for more than a few
days when one is getting nothing in return. I found that
when God gave me the gift of really feeling her presence
inside of me, I had the strength and I could go on, but
that when that gift was withdrawn (as God sometimes
does), then loving my partner unconditionally was just
not sustainable. I have the strange feeling that it was
during one of these moments of feeling God's absence that
I gathered the strength to start the divorce process, and
that that happened so that I could really and truly
become a being independently of my spouse. In addition,
that seemed to have been the 2X4 that our relationship
needed for us to give it one last real effort, which is
what we are attempting to do now, in the midst of
incredible difficulties.
Anyway, most of the time I have more questions than
answers, or guesses like you say. I love this web
site!!!!!
From: Bernd
The guesses I've been writing are like trying to
describe what the colour blue looks like to a blind
person. Love is infinitely complex, as well as very
simple. I'm trying to become more simple, and with all my
past reliance on my head, it's a very hard process for
me.
But I'm getting more insights, and clearer ones, in
the process. My suggestion is maybe try the same path,
and see what happens. When I want to check an insight, I
used to try to analyse it from all angles. Now I'm trying
more just to say it, and feel how calm and solid it feels
inside. I've got to learn how to love and understand like
a child again. Lynda's very good at it. A kid might not
say things in the same ways adults do, but boy, when they
call things like they see it, it reaches me in ways the
longest explanations never can. The adult in me might
"know" certain things, but the kid in me
"understands". Simplify, simplify, I try to
keep repeating to myself. I guess I'm a long way off from
doing that yet, eh????:)
From: Frightened
Bernd, I believe you have hit upon the very thing, the
very definition of something all of us have been
disregarding for a very long time. The difference between
'childish' and 'childlike', to view the world with the
same wonderment as one finds in the eyes and heart of a
child. Thank you, I have been missing this connection.
From: mzet
I guess my real concern regarding self-reliance has to
do with a recognition on my part that I was like an
onion, and the more layers I peeled the closer I get to
who I was, which, ultimately, it was, like an onion,
NOTHING!!!! When I got to that point, I said, there's got
to be something else there. And out of despair, that's
when I opened myself up to the experience of the real
presence of God inside of me for the first time in my
life.
Within that framework or proposition about my own
life, which I recognize is not shared by everyone,
exclusive talk of self reliance and healing my self, and
concentrating on my self, and loving my self, etc. tends
to remind me of my old atheistic perspective, which I
won't go into, but ultimately, as you can imagine, relied
exclusively on my own efforts.
Love of self is necessary, but I see it as only a
moment within a continual dialectic process of the love
of god and love of others. Love of self without love of
god or others is love of nothing because without god and
others we are nothing. And love of nothing is hell. Hope
this clarifies my concerns.
From: wolfie
Hi mzet, I hear what you're saying. It is just that my
philosophy of God may differ from others here. I feel
that God is not separate. I feel that others are not
separate. I feel that nothing is separate. I feel that
there is Only God - this one Mind - this One spirit - and
we are all One with It - all that is. Therefore, I feel
that if I love ALL of my self - I will most definitely
love ALL others (everyone and everything) in the world -
for we are all One. It is a New Thought philosophy which
I believe in and has helped change my life. It has taught
me that I am not Separate from God, but one With it (I
have a higher Self, inner voice of knowing) which guides
me. But it has taught me about co-creation and self
mastery and that we are the masters of our own ship,
based on our inner beliefs of self. In other words, I
believe we are ALL powerful - not powerless. We are
co-creators and we are constantly creating, minute by
minute, with our awareness (consciously, as I choose to)
or unaware (sleeping and allowing out deep seeded beliefs
run our life). This is what I believe. I could go on but
I have said enough. I hear what you are saying - I do -
but the difference is that I do not believe that God is
separate from me - that anything is separate from me. I
believe there is only oneness. That is why - what goes
out, comes back - what I do to others, I'm doing to
myself, etc. That is why the mirror factor is what it is.
Basically, my beliefs are one of: Metaphysics. Take good
care to you also Mzet - It has been fun talking with you.
From: Bernd
The long answer to a short question (mzet's question:
"do you think that the paradoxes that those who are
in relationships with alcoholics or addicts of any kind
and are therefore in potentially codependent situations
apply 100% to relationships where there are no addictions
present?").
From the reading I've done and the insights I've been
getting into my own diseases, I think there are 2 main
ingredients to addiction: 1/ a genetic disposition 2/ a
well of past dysfunction that's gotten buried inside of
us (childhood pain and shame, etc.). The genetic
connection has been really highlighted in studies of
identical twins that were separated at birth, and raised
by different families. Researchers found that past family
history had a MUCH larger bearing on whether someone
became an addict, than what kind of home they were raised
in. Recent research with anorexics and bulimics has also
found that some anti-depressants have a major impact in
turning around these diseases.
So if there's no genetic disposition to addiction,
past family dysfunction can be masked extremely well.
Which, in my opinion, makes it easy for some couples to
fool themselves into thinking that they really have no
deep down problems, when in fact their self-deception is
doing a terrible number on their kids. If you want some
real insights into this area, read M. Scott Peck's book
"People of the Lie".
My reading is the addictive "predisposition"
is like a trip wire. Once someone's level of inner pain
and struggle has reached a high enough level, we
"trip" that wire, and the addictive process
begins. Usually, the addiction itself - in masking that
pain - actually adds even more to the struggle and pain,
which makes getting back to the other side of that trip
wire harder and harder as time goes on. The addiction
spirals downward.
Addicts usually don't stop using their
"drug" until 1/ it stops working as much as
they need it to 2/ they hit bottom, and the pain of their
addiction hits them like a locomotive 3/ they find a
better "drug" (change addictions) 4/ they find
a healthy. natural pain reliever that works better than
their drug (recovery), usually by being smitten with
someone else's example or healthy intervention. Without a
visible addiction present, it's usually a lot harder to
find the motivation to do the painful work of really
finding out how much crap we've been carrying inside.
Codependency is one of the "invisible"
addictions. My drug is other people, and I try to get my
drug to give me the most pain relief possible. Because
many of the things I do as a codependent look so much
like "love", it's easy for me - and others - to
mistake many of my choices as "love". For
example, giving Lynda flowers on Mother's Day seems like
a loving thing to do. If I do it in hopes of getting laid
later on that day, and resent Lynda when she doesn't come
thru, my hidden motives aren't visible to anyone.
Visitors to our house might see the flowers, and think
"what a nice guy", and we also might put on our
masks (and often did) that made us appear like a normal,
married couple. One day, Lynda has an affair, and if I've
been doing all the "right loving things", our
friends roll their eyes in horror and say "how could
she do that to such a loving husband?" By having an
"invisible" disease, one that I could hide
fairly easily, it would be easy for me to take the moral
high ground. Maybe I'm really better off having a
"visible" addiction. At least then, it would be
a lot harder for me to hide my own dysfunctions. If I was
an alcoholic, there'd be something to point to, that
others could say "no wonder the marriage crashed,
look at how much he drinks". It would be a lot
harder for me as well to deceive myself into thinking
"she" was the one with the problems.
The lack of visible addictions in a relationship
doesn't equal lack of pain and dysfunction in each
partner. It just makes it harder to see, and to find. It
makes it harder to hit bottom. Yes, there are probably
many marriages that don't have addiction, and are truly
loving relationships. The ones that have made the most
impression on me are those that reach out beyond the
marriage to embrace other people's suffering. The
transformation of suffering to joy, I believe, is one of
the main truths about how love works. If we don't have
enough suffering inside of us (i.e., if we were raised in
a genuinely loving environment), the only way we can keep
love flowing thru us is to reach out and help others
transform their suffering, sharing it. Dunno if that
answered your question, but I tried to take a good stab!
From: mzet
Good stab!!!! :) I like your reading on addiction,
pain and dysfunction. I'm no expert, of course, but what
I like about your view is that so much of it can be
applied to my own spiritual life. In retrospect, my
addiction may have been to my self, in the form of
excessive self-centeredness disguised as love, like you
say. Sex had a lot to do with it too. I couldn't get
enough of it from my wife. And when I didn't, I used
pornography, which I eventually was becoming addicted to
and so quit about a year ago. And now, even sex is
secondary. In fact, I don't know what I'm going to do if
my wife ever offers to make love (not
I did have to hit bottom through the hell of my wife's
affairs, to recognize all of this internal crap I was
carrying. And to be able to transform it. That's why I am
so hopeful that if we can work this "little"
problem of the affairs, our relationship could be so
good....
I like your reading on suffering. But just because
there are no addictions does not mean that there is no
real suffering there. Fully human beings suffer married
or single, even if they were raised in loving
environments. Look at the life of Jesus. I'm not sure his
family was too dysfunctional, well, maybe a little, we
don't know. But I think the capacity to suffer is
directly proportional to capacity to grow. And the more
God loves us, the more we suffer and, in turn, the more
we grow in our capacity to transform that suffering into
joy. And then reaching out with compassion into other's
lives is even a higher form of love.
From: dmg
Thank you so much for all of your comments. They have
given me a lot to think about. I know I am going to have
to talk to my SO sooner or later but that frightens me
alot right now. I'm afraid he is a little tired of me not
feeling the way I would like to be in this relationship
and I have to accept the reality that it could be his
choice to end it at that point if he can not understand
what I am trying to do for myself. I guess the right time
will present itself. In the mean time there is SO much
for me to think about. I know I have alot of self healing
to do and accepting me for who I am is a big priority
right now.
Went shopping last night and bought a couple of your
recommended books. "Conversation with God" and
"The Road Less Travelled". Can't wait to start.
Your words have helped (ALL of you) and have given me a
starting point even a sense of calmness I haven't felt
for a long time. Never have I met such a warm supportive
group of people. Thank you.
From: wolfie
You sound great dmg!!!! I'm glad you are in good
spirits and I know things will all work out for you. They
always do! I think you will really love Conversations
with God! Always feel free to contact me.
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