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 Fight v. flight - Oregon
Hello all...very nice discovery this page...a lot of
pain and hope, and nice to know others are going through
it too. I have new empathy for this kind of pain. I've
been in an 8 year relationship with a woman, we've lived
together 4. It's serious by any measure, and committed,
though fairly stormy. Were both about 30.
Of late we really fell apart. She had an affair, I had
one 4 years ago. The central issue for us has been power
and passion. In 8 years she has only initiated sex a few
times. And Ive never really felt wanted by her or seen
much desire from her for me. All modesty aside, Im a
decent guy, an open-minded and unselfish lover . At times
I grew resentful, said unkind words. But for the most
part tried to create some ground for intimacy. Books,
talking, romancing. Lovemaking for us hasnt invariably
been bad..its been nice sometimes, even. She was able to
orgasm for the first time with me years ago, and though
now a little routine, clearly can find pleasure with me.
But desire is something else... I cheated partly because
I was so bewitched by being wanted by someone. (I did
tell about what happened.)
Her affair, she says she never wanted anyone like him.
You can imagine how this feels. She did break things off
on my urging to work on us, but six weeks later she still
avoids intimacy with me and keeps trying to write him,
saying its just as friends. Yet I found one very romantic
letter exactly the kind of thing I wanted from her and
indeed, have written to her. Also, shes only known him a
few months, hardly spent any time with him, and he sounds
unscrupulous too. 5 kids by 5 different women, has said
to her that our relationship doesnt mean much because
were not married (even though we wear rings and live
together), says Im manipulating her and trying to own her
because I say we have a real friendship and closeness
that might be worth trying to maintain or at least end in
kindness.. And through all this she still tells me she
loves me. So you see, the fight or flight instinct is
just too hard to take. Im so damn skittish about exposing
myself to insult on injury. Im acting irrationally
because I cant put my finger on how much to hope for. I
could accept the affair almost as a evening of the score
(and a response to lonliness, since we work opposite
shifts) if there was a history with us of her initiating,
or if she didnt say he was the only man she'd ever
hungered for and what if theres not another, etc. And Im
obsessed by what she did for him, because it was never
done for me... I read this and see what a twisted mess it
is... How can I take a chance on us without feeling like
Im only going to get hurt by a draw she cant seem to
resist?
Whew...it feels good if only to speak my feelings...
 From: Bernd
You mentioned that your relationship has been
“stormy”, and that - in the affairs - the
“central issue for us has been power and
passion.” My guess is that the power and passion
have been fundamental dynamics in your relationship, and
the affairs were ways of trying to regain control of
those in each of your individual lives.
There are some serious, basic issues happening here -
both as individuals, and in combination in your
relationship. Here are my best guesses. YOU are the one
holding the visible sexual power in the relationship,
very likely without realizing you are wielding it like a
hammer. You both seem to have adopted the roles of
teacher/student sexually, where you “bring her out
of her shell” (my quotes), and in return, she
rewards you eventually by becoming the kind of sexual
partner you want. However, when one partner feels visibly
disempowered, they often try to restore the balance in
covert (more hidden) ways. My guess is that her only ways
to keep some sense of sexual empowerment is to refuse
sex, or slow down it’s frequency, and to be a
resistant “student”. I suspect however that
those approaches would have been met with more
determination on your part to “fix” her, and
would have steadily increased your resentment at her
refusal to “get with the program” - i.e.,
initiate sex.
This may sound a bit callous, but it isn’t
intended to be so. If there is some truth to it, then
what is really happening is that both of you have entered
an unspoken sexual arrangement that you both play an
equal part in, but is one that is unwinnable - because as
human beings, when we do something for hidden motives,
our souls rebel against the secrecy and self-deception.
Affairs are a sledgehammer when it comes to regaining
the illusion of power in a relationship. They often send
out the message - “you had your chance to find out
who I really am and what I need, and you blew it”.
Unless there is a serious and honest commitment to
finding out just what happened to lead things to such a
point - a commitment by one OR both partners - then the
chances of a reconciliation working out are dim. The
offended partner has been left with the clear unspoken
message “you better get it right this time”.
Such commitment, foremost, involves exploring a new
painful honesty with ourselves. You said “All
modesty aside, I’m a decent guy, an open-minded and
unselfish lover”. As positive as this sounds, it is
very destructive when combined with hidden motives -
especially sexual ones. It gives you the illusion of a
morally superior position, and in your partner’s
eyes, she has to measure up to you, before she can even
begin feeling truly good about herself. I’ve done it
for many many years (just ask Lynda), and have to
continually remind myself that I am not wise enough to
judge how nice, or shitty I am. One more point:
selfishness has gotten a bad rap. Ultimately, everything
we do is selfish - it reinforces our positive view of
ourself, fills a need we have, or does something that
gives us a good feeling in one way or another. We do
“unselfish” acts because they usually have a
payoff (even if it’s subtle, or far into the
future), such as reinforcing how “nice” we are.
Lynda and I are very very selfish now - we try to get the
best out of anything we do - because the “best”
always involves genuine love.
Now, her affair. It sounds like this man knows how to
help a woman make a fantasy seem real. I suspect her
fantasy is to be treated like a princess, to be allowed
to have whatever feelings, desires, thoughts, etc. that
she wants, and to feel “special” in a magical
way. Although you FEEL as if you’ve been giving her
much of that, the hidden motives and control sour
whatever you have given her - and her gut instinct is
right on when she doesn’t feel the “magic”
when she seems to be getting all that “nice
stuff” from you. When we’ve given up hope of
getting something magical where we are, then it’s
not hard to dive into the deep alluring end of the pool
just to “feel it again”, even if that’s
where we’ll eventually drown.
Both affairs are definitely wake-up calls, but
she’s the only one who can hear and do anything
about HER alarm bell. If you try to make her aware of
what she’s doing to herself and you, all you do is
add more noise that makes it even more unlikely
she’ll discover what she’s really doing.
Listen to your wake-up call. There are some
fundamental reasons why you were attracted to her. Unless
you uncover what is really going on inside you, you will
look for another relationship that gives you the same
dynamics - and likely ends up knocking you over again.
Like me, her affair can end up being the worst thing -
and the best thing - that ever happened to you. Nature is
a wonderful and patient teacher - whatever we don’t
learn the first time, it will repeat for us again and
again - until it’s sunk in.
Use the Recovery Links section to find web resources
that will help you put your and her affairs more in
perspective, and then decide what you need to explore to
give yourself better chances in the next relationship -
whether it’s with her or someone else.
Hope some of this helps. I’ve been there, and so
has Lynda - big time.
From: AG
I think that even if your partner did hunger only for
this other guy, she did not show much sensitivity
(ACTUALLY NONE) for your feelings. I think that Intimacy
is vitally important in a long-term relationship, but
sensitivity and consideration are also very important.
I don't like to give advice, but I think you should
carefully consider the value of this relationship.
From: oregon
Sincere Thanks ,bernd--some very interesting insights
that sting, but certainly give me much to think about.
The part about attention is most intriguing. I think its
really easy to convince ones-self that the other lover in
the affair is something really special or possesses
amazing qualities. Im learning that this person was
relatively mundane. Not muscle-bound and flawlessly
handsome, brilliant and talented and every other
insecurity of my own.--just attentive. And though I
certainly think he’s a little shady, (known for
getting involved with involved women, plus the five kids
by five women part is spooky if nothing but from a safe
sex standpoint.) I cant deny that my resentment and
failure to voice my feelings without anger long ago got
in the way of just being nice and attentive, and thats
why she cheated. What a simple lesson to learn in such a
difficult way.... ouch.
At this point Im mostly struggling with the question
of moving on or staying to work things out (actually in
progress)-- theres a lot of water under the bridge now
and maybe having made peace with one another we wiould be
best parting with grace. Anyways, Ive looked through the
recovery links....good stuff--but Ive not found any
newsgroup or forum for discussion of affair recovery
specifically....am I missing something??
From: Bernd
There are a few links, such as Dealing with an Affair
(http://www.inforamp.net/~kmarlowe/index.htm)
listed in the Recovery links section. I’d like to
have more, and will look for additional ones in the near
future. That site received an award from the Mental
Health Net.
It takes time. It took me 2 years to even BEGIN
getting truthful and healthy perspective on Lynda’s
and my own affairs. Give yourself the time you need;
don’t rush it, even though the feelings seem
overpowering at times.
My gut feeling is that your sense is right on the
button that the other man is a bit shady. Some people are
very adept at wearing disguises. Learn from him, and how
his dishonesty actually robs him of genuine love.
You said “...that’s why she cheated”.
You are taking the blame or something you have absolutely
NO control over - her choices. You ARE responsible for
your part in the relationship struggles, and unhealthy
choices you made that affected her. However, self-blame
come from an unconscious need to feel in control of the
relationship, and in control of her. It was HER choice,
and still is. Allowing others to make their own choices -
even bad ones - is very much part of loving them. You
can’t truly respect such choices if you feel you
could have “done something” to cause them to
make other choices.
You also said “At this point I’m mostly
struggling with the question of moving on or staying to
work things out”. I can identify with that big time.
From my own experience, trying to make such a huge
decision is a natural way of trying to cope with the
anguish. However, you’ll find your coping and
healing process will improve the more you can let go of
making such a long-term decision. Focus on today, this
moment, this hour. When your gut feeling says “get
away”, do that for an hour, an afternoon, a day or
two, or whatever time feels right for the moment. Go back
home on your terms (I don’t mean lay down
“terms” for her; what I mean is do what feels
good for you, instead of making your choices in
“reaction” to what she does, or how she feels).
I moved back home because I knew our relationship had
a lot of important things to teach me - many through
painful lessons. That was my commitment - to myself. If
you can find that motivation inside you, then the
question of leaving or staying will take care of itself.
One of the greatest benefits of me staying to learn
from OUR relationship is that an affair by Lynda right
now wouldn’t shake my commitment to stay. It would
be HER choice, and I recognize now that it would be a
very unhealthy one for her. My inner voice tells me it
would be a real trial for me, in finding out just how
much difference “detachment with love” really
makes in keeping my emotional well-being intact, as well
as allowing her the chance to learn some very painful
lessons. The irony is she’s now aware that SHE would
be the one hurt most by her having an affair, and my not
holding that “ax” over her head doesn’t
distract her from that important inner truth. It is such
a breath of freedom to no longer need to worry - not
because I “trust her”, but because I’ve
discovered that genuine love means respecting her right
to make her own choices - ANY choices, even ones I may
not like.
A final note: as I may have mentioned before in
replies to other posts, her affair has done a lot more
than just caused you CURRENT pain. It’s also ripped
open a bunch of trapdoors to past childhood pain, which
got buried deep down. She isn’t the cause of that
part of your pain; it existed before her, and the affair.
Her opening those trapdoors is a gift to you, even though
it might be wrapped up in barbed wire. The more you can
focus on dealing with and healing THAT part of the pain
you feel, the easier it will become to deal with the
actual anguish the affair has “caused”.
Keep searching. The answers ARE out there, and inside
you.
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