 VT to RT relationships - Barry
dear Bernd, Susan, Mzet, and all... I'm kinda hoping
you can still remember my last post and your responses
from August 14th... maybe that's asking a lil' too much
though huh? *grin*
well... let's see where do I start? ummm okay... in 23
days time I fly over to you wonderfully diverse
country...all the way from downunder... *slight hiccup*
thought things were going well with my VT SO... talking
on the phone... emails everyday... flowers... etc, etc
then 3 weeks ago someone else came into the picture (well
hers at least) *pout* another guy she met VT around the
same time as myself... closer to her age but... anyhoo...
one way or another I find out he's visiting the same
state as her on the pretext of spending a week with a
friend he hadn't seen in a couple of years... his visit
wasn't mentioned directly and in fact was greyed over...
when I hadn't heard from my VT SO all weekend I began to
think something bad might have happened?? spoke with her
at her work on Monday morning and she sounded a lil'
stressed... asked about her weekend and what she was up
to and her response was "oh nothing! just normal
stuff" *alarm bells sounding* already suspected what
was going on and asked indirectly... was told I was
imagining things... was paranoid... etc... etc... weekend
after this... same deal..
rang late Friday night (sounded even more stressed
this time?) and for the first time in 3 months was asked
if I could hold the line for a minute.. the phones right
beside her bed btw... anywayze my suspicions aroused...
did a lil' research in our local chat room and asked
around after VT SO... no body else had heard from the
previous weekend or current one... then someone added
"I think so-and-so was visiting this weekend?"
*kerplunk* the penny dropped... so unable to sleep I
emailed her and asked straight out.. response: (after
much deliberation apparently?) yes we slept together both
weekends... that was 'cool' I said I didn't mind... it
was not knowing when my gut feeling was screaming at me
something was up!! we talked it over and I said that we'd
discussed this possibility happening and that I thought
we'd agreed to be honest about it all?? I thought we'd
reached that consensus until this weekend? *long sigh*
last Thursday on the phone I'd asked what her plans were
for the weekend... she said work was stressing her out
and she might try and get for the weekend... might visit
her ex "blah-blah" in Arizona? Friday morning
her email says I talk to you tonight on the phone... so I
call up several times until 2.30am in the morning
thinking maybe she's gone out drinking etc... she'd said
she'd probably fly out Saturday morning?? once again...
*alarm bells ringing even louder this time* asked around
and it turns out that so-and-so was excited about his
weekend as he was expecting an out of state visitor??
*kerthunk! poweee! ouch!* now my guts was churning over
time... felt physically sick... couldn't sleep...
got back home from visiting my 14mo son all weekend in
the country having thought over and over... what do I
say? do? remembered that so-and-so came from a particular
town and knew the state so tried the int. operator...
*bingo* checked the time over there... 8am...*dialed*
so-and-so answers..."hi **** could I please speak
with ******?" response: "umm..yeah.. hang on a
minute..." well I can only imagine how she must've
felt... and I honestly hope that she felt at least a lil'
sick in the tummy... she sounded it??? asked what was
going on? why she lied to me? (which she denied point
blank btw) that she could of told me? did she still want
me to fly over? that I was upset? that I loved her!!!
Jesus!!!!!! what's going on??? the one friend I've told
tonight said "forget her... you don't need someone
like that? you've got plenty of GF's here why blow all
that money etc, etc, etc"
she says she still wants me to come over.. I mean
we're spending 5weeks together!!! I'm meeting her folks
'n' all!! we're supposed to be going to one of her close
GF's wedding!!! we've got our flights and accommodation
booked!! my flights nearly paid for?? what am doing
guys?? I'm in a world o confusion and pain and I want to
see past all this... I don't blame her or hold any
grudges... it's just the lies I can't handle? I know she
doesn't want to hurt me me but shit!!!... aren't we both
supposed to be adults???
need everyone's collective input... have I invested
too much energy in this relationship to call it off? I
really don't want to? but this is kinda taking some of
the shine off what I hope will be a great vacation and
possibly the start of something else? am I being naive??
stupid?? love-struck? where is all this going? I mean
shit she rang me last Friday and spoke me for nearly an
hour??? need lots of help, hugs and friendly advice
please... more than ever?
 From: Susan
Barry, TYPING THROUGH TEARS........ Oh, Gods and
Goddesses, Barry - I have been going through the same
thing for 3 weeks !!!! I feel so bad that I encouraged
you before, I apologize if I had ANY input into your
decision. All I can say is go with your heart, Barry.
Just keep in mind - like Bernd says - your heart doesn't
lie to you, but sometimes the translation gets a little
'garbled'.
The only way I have gotten through this is with some
wonderful, supportive friends. People who would listen to
my self-pity, anger and confusion. But it did take this
long just to get to the point where I don't think I will
die from the pain any minute. I have no real advice for
you. I can only say "I am there, too" and I
know how devastating the lies and betrayal can be. I have
been doing a lot of reading about Internet relationships,
and have found out that this whole scenario is SO COMMON.
Too many vulnerable people in the world, Barry. And you
and I are a couple of those.
I wanted to do the same thing. I wanted to believe the
same thing. I truly believed that I had found my
"soulmate" and the love of my life. Right now,
I flip-flop between hating him and loving him. I play the
"what if" game, the same one you seem to be
playing:: What if it WAS/IS real, what if I just wait for
him to realize he loves me, what if I just tell him he
will always have a place in my life/heart/soul and assume
my "heart" is right..... all those are head
games we are playing on ourselves, Barry.
Look hard at the facts, look hard at how YOU have been
treated and decide if this person is worthy of your love
and devotion..... that is all I can say. Please just try
to calm down and take some quiet time to determine what
you really need in your life. I am praying for you....
hoping for the best. Whatever you decide... remember we
are here to give you our love and support.
From: Bernd
Barry, I try to give as little advice as I can, and do
so imperfectly. I’m going to be even more imperfect
than usual here. I’d strongly recommend you take a
time-out. Postpone (i.e. cancel for now) any trip plans.
Have you paid money toward the tickets yet, and if so,
can you get it refunded?
Trust and honesty are things that sit on a sliding
scale or most people. They can be honest about many
things - until being honest puts them between a rock and
a hard place. We lie because we hope lying will help us
squeeze out of such tough spots, until we can find a
better way of handling a situation - but lying almost
always comes back to haunt us. You found that out in your
own past cyber-affair, and your new SO is going to have
to find out the hard way too.
Why is this situation happening? You might think at
times that it’s “pay back” - what you did
is now happening to you. God doesn’t work by
revenge, or in this way. Rather, it may be another step
in learning what honesty and integrity really is. Because
of your past experience, I suspect you’ve learned to
value honesty in a whole new way - and that feels very
healthy. However, honesty ALSO means recognizing that
others may be HEADING toward such lessons in their own
lives. That’s being honest with yourself about
reality.
In my own struggles with honesty and trust, I’ve
found that listening to the little warning bells inside -
and trusting them - is essential to my emotional
well-being. If I’m not honest with myself when I get
those little bells, why should I expect a greater degree
of honesty from someone else? The more I trust those gut
feelings, the easier it is for me to give other people
APPROPRIATE trust. If someone begins being dishonest with
me, I can let them go more easily, instead of being
ripped apart by a sense of betrayal.
You said “I don't blame her or hold any
grudges”. Are you being ho9nest with yourself
here???? To me, it is very appropriate that you’d
feel anger, rage, hurt, and wanna bash something in. I
sure as hell would (and have!). So has Lynda, when I lied
to her all those times.
Your new SO is trying to walk a tightrope, and
inviting you to stay on it with her. Be forewarned...the
chances of both of you slipping off again and again are
very high. Until she has learned to value INTEGRITY, her
view of honesty and yours will continue to clash. If you
decide to continue investing in this relationship, then
invest for what you can learn from it, and let the
outcome be what it will. If you are hoping you and her
can make things right again, my hunch is that the odds
aren’t very good at all.
One last note: pain is a helluva teacher, and often an
unwelcome one. But if you DO let it be your teacher, it
can give you treasures unlike any other. Whatever you
decide to do, the more you can embrace this stage of your
life as a porcupine with a diamond underneath, the better
chance you havoc coming out of it better for it, than
worse. Good luck guy.
From: kim (wolfie)
Hi!!! I have been sitting back and not saying anything
about all of this because I felt you all needed to work
out whatever it is you are working out. I just can't keep
quiet anymore. Susan, I see NO reason for you to
apologize to Barry for encouraging him to do what he
needed to do!!!! I really believe that EVERY relationship
is a Tool for growth, whether you meet them online or in
person. I don't think it matters - We draw people into
our lives for a reason - and in each situation we can
learn something.
Enough of that. I am not hear to lecture, to advice or
to anything. I am just expressing my truth and you can
accept or reject. I have had very positive internet
experiences. I have connected with people like you!! When
I first got AOL, I checked out the Metaphysical board
(because that is what I am into) and I wanted to meet
some friends so I put up a post expressing who I was and
I attracted like minds. I met some wonderful people. And
then I met someone I thought would be the one and it
didn't work out but I learned a great deal and then I met
my present partner on-line thru a friendship pen-pal
connection. He was from Pennsylvania and I was from
Boston and in 1995 he moved in with me.
As most of you know, I consider myself a metaphysician
- I really believe in the philosophy that thoughts are
things. In other words, our outer reality is a reflection
of our inner reality. Our thoughts are very powerful.
Anyway, just my thoughts and my experiences.
From: Susan
Kim, Thanks for your concern for ALL of us. No pain,
no gain??? If I ever get THROUGH the pain, I very likely
will have gained a lot. But the getting through (NOT
around, under or over) is the hard part. I am working out
whatever I need to work out and I am sure Barry is too.
And, yes, I agree that I have several WONDERFUL
relationships made through the Internet. Friends I would
never have "met" otherwise.
You are one of the lucky ones, Kim - most
"love" relationships developed on-line do not
work out. That yours did (oddly) comforts me, that maybe
I was not SO far out in left-field maybe? I wish you
continued happiness.
From: kim
Thanks Susan - Love to you!!!! And NO you were not out
in left field.
From: Barry
dear Bernd, Lynda, Susan, Kim, Mzet, and all you other
wonderful people out there... I spoke with my VT/RT SO
last night... 2am her time... she got home round 1am from
memory... she'd just finished reading my letter... in
which I told her how I felt and that my gut feelings said
"pull the pin"... "back off"... I
said I still loved her as silly as it might sound and
that I was trying to understand her battle with
honesty... she said she felt physically ill after my
phone call to her lovers 8am Sunday morning... funnily
she mentioned that when the phone rang she
"knew" that it was me??? said the look on her
face... on both their faces siad it all... he was upset
and wanted to know how I got his number... etc... etc...
took the shine off her weekend by all accounts... that
wasn't my intention btw! I just wanted her to know that I
cared for her, that I loved her and that I was deeply
hurt by her lying... something she agreed she ought to
have told me about... said she felt lousy... had been
looking at herself hard and didn't like what she
saw/felt... kept apologising... sorry that she hurt me...
sorry about the way she treated me... says she is going
to back off the internet... said I deserved
better..etc...etc...
I understand why she lied... but until I actually meet
her I won't understand her like I desperately wish
to!!!??? she still want's me to come over.. still wants
to spend her holidays with me... the wedding... her
folks... us... I know it sounds crazy but I'm going with
my heart... it says we have so much in common... we both
have a lot of issues to deal with... but that porcupine
(you mean echidna Bernd..surely?? *LOL*) ...with that
diamond underneath is so tangible... so very real in my
heart... that I'm prepared to get stuck.. bleed a lil' if
it means finding that special relationship... friend...
lover... soulmate... it's a chance but I'm taking it!!
hell!!! I'd kick myself for the rest of my life if I
never get to see her smile, touch her skin, taste her
kisses, smell her hair, just be with her????
I feel closer to her now than ever before depsite the
lies... thanks for you kind words of advice they helped
considerably K? *big open arm hugs to you all*
From: Susan
Barry, Buddy, you really have to stop making me cry
!!! Just joking with ya....... (sort of). I applaud your
courage, right or wrong you are willing to take the
chance to follow your heart. As always, no matter how it
turns out..... All the love and support is here for you.
From: barry
Just wanted to give you all an update on my cyber
relationship VT to RT... think it's important for
everyone to read if your considering getting involved in
a "cyber" romance...
As i mentioned my cyber SO (CSO) and i met just over 3
months ago purely by accident in someone's private chat
room... Guess it kinda equates with meeting at a party or
in a crowded room except you only get a very limited
perspective on the other person.... traits, personality,
feelings, looks, etc... Up until a month ago we were both
totally 'out-of-control' (TOC)... 3 or 4 emails a day...
a phone call every two or three days.... We spoke about
our feelings for one another, desires, hopes, dreams, we
shared some of our most closely guarded secrets... we
went into 'it' totally unprepared for the "reality
check" (RC)
The RC can best be described as that defining moment
when real life encroaches on your wonderfully constructed
and carefully controlled and orchestrated cyber fantasy
world... perhaps it's the moment you keep feeling
something long after your terminal is switched off, your
mind and heart wandering far off into the nether? In our
case the weeks grew gradually shorter, the date when we'd
'actually' come face-to-face (FTF) after a flight from
one side of the world to the other became closer to
"reality". Enter the third parties and
dishonesty and lies... enter other feelings for RT
persons that hadn't been factored into the cyber
equation... enter a sudden change in mood... a dramatic
shift in nature our romance... a backing off...
apprehension ...fear ....excitement ... the $500 phone
bills... the "reality check"!!!! *G*
Somehow we managed to get over this stage... we're
still struggling i might add... we've both backed off
considerably and now just want to have fun... the
expectation we both talked about and discussed have been
pushed fearfully to the side-lines... that word
"commitment" plastered all over our outer
boundaries... suddenly we are vulnerable, human, our
shortcomings rush up to grab us by the throat with their
familiar yet comforting grip... we reel and wonder if
maybe it'd be better to call the whole thing off?...
regardless, we've both learned valuable lessons thus
far...as our relationship enters a new phase, the post
"reality check" phase (PRCP)
Next Wednesday we meet for the first time RT *gulp*
...only now we've agreed that whatever happens
"happens"... we plan on having fun and if
something else becomes of 'it'... then hey! it was mean't
to be???? ...we'll both have a very special friendship...
foundered on nethereal "love" care and
understanding... stepping forward boldly one day at
time!! *grin*
lotsa hugs! Barry p.s. it feels good to be alive!!!
*S*
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